GNOME Bangalore, my butt

Happened to be visiting gnomebangalore.org, and saw this. GNOME Bangalore is most certainly not, if the “Community” (it infuriates me that this is the word used) Meet is “OPEN TO: Those currently in NOSIP and those interested to join or know more about the program.”

Okay, maybe I’m wrong and it’s just an error. That is my hope, at any rate.

I do not believe the GNOME Bangalore body is managing to organise an actual community around GNOME-users/devs, but around NOSIP interns. I’m open to correction, if anyone knows better.

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25 Comments

  1. Anonymous
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 5:01 am | Permalink

    Ex-intern here.

    NOSIP is just a Novell HR program. And GB is their cover story. Everything’s Novell oriented.

    UR right – not a community.

  2. prikansaritual
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 5:19 am | Permalink

    i guess, if they work along with the BLUG community, they would’ve had a bigger audience. it would be a win-win for both.

    anyway, the LINDEC t-shirts were damn cool. i’ll go to another one of those for the t-shirts.

  3. fox2mike
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    They don’t even have to work with a specific community. All they have to do, is to lay ground work for building one. What they’re doing instead is shutting out everyone else but Novell/related to Novell, which is no good IMHO.

  4. louiswu
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 6:32 am | Permalink

    The BLUG is more or less dead, so that mightn’t have worked. LINDEC was okay, because GNOME Bangalore had just started. That was there first and last attempt that I know of at actually involving non-Novell people.

    Say, did you look at LDTP after that? Was just going through the pages today and it looks pretty cool.

  5. jessyleen
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    ?? In what way was it a Novell HR program?

  6. say_yes04
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    yes yes, remember the time i asked you to join Nosip in exchange of your soul. It was all a HR program no doubt …

    *bugger off man

  7. say_yes04
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    I am tired of cynicism. Please tell me what would you rather have them do ?

    Be simple, no contorted “its too late now”, “why should i tell you”, crap Just simple 1,2,3 and i will make an honest attempt to do it !

  8. jessyleen
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    This program is primarily aimed at getting students to experiment with open source. For many who have gone through it, its been a good experience. I wish there had been something like this in my student days. To have a big corporate like Novell allow you to join (at no cost.. and with no marks barrier right now), then mentor you (with just the small condition that you consistently do your homework).. and launch you into the bigger OS communities when you show promise.. I think its amazing.

    LDTP is one project where we have guys from other corps currently joining in . All projects are open for participation from anyone.. with interest.

    If you want to attend/ contribute something and you’ve been stopped, please let me know. I’ve been co-ordinating the program for the last 7-8 months and I can’t remember even one instance of turning you/anyone away.

  9. say_yes04
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    rather , we could make an honest attempt to do it.

  10. louiswu
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    [Possibly Unnecessary Disclaimer: This is not a screaming/flaming/blaming post or comment directed at you. I really hope you don't misunderstand it so]

    I have nothing against the NOSIP. I don’t know too much about it, but from what I can see, it’s a really good chance for students to learn about GNOME, the infrstructure, and make useful contributions.

    My crib is not against the NOSIP but about the fact that it seems to me that the GNOME Bangalore Community is being equated to the NOSIP community. And I’m open to being corrected here.

  11. louiswu
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    I’m no expert, but let me give it a shot. I’m not interested in yelling/screaming/flaming/blaming either.

    I joined some GNOME Bangalore generic announcement list when the site was first set up. I went to the mailing-lists list and see it’s not there – only dev-related lists. This leads me to…

    If I had to choose a starting point, these would encompass it. All this is heavily influenced by my personal opinons, of course: 1) A local user mailing-list. There are certainly more GNOME users in Bangalore than devs (sometimes I think that mightn’t be true, given the NOSIP program – and as far as I’m concerned, that’s a good thing) 2) More meetings – a community is about people, and I find that community meets, if they go well, tend to create a positive-feedback loop amongst enthusiastic people. This is “getting-all-pumped-up-feeling” is what FOSS community and conferences are about. 3) Greater feasibility for (2) could be got by having some local discussion lists

    As you can see, this is not a new/revolutionary model of a local community. If you have better ideas, I’m all ears.

  12. jessyleen
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Is the name the main problem? We never claimed to be exclusive.. in fact this group came into existence while BLUG was there. Was BLUG inclusive of every Linux User in Bangalore?? Right now the group consists primarily of Nosipians.. hey we’re just over a year old. Why yell and dismiss good excellent efforts in place? No one stopped you from doing your bit.

  13. louiswu
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    No one stopped you from doing your bit.

    Fair enough.

    Either way, this argument is going nowhere, so I’m out.

  14. achitnis
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    Ummm, hold it right there.

    “Was BLUG inclusive of every Linux User in Bangalore??”

    The BLUG was certainly not exclusive of anything. Gnome Bangalore appears to be exclusive to NOSIP members – i.e., if you aren’t part of NOSIP (and I am not discussing NOSIP here – that’s Novell’s business, not mine), you can’t be part of Gnome Bangalore.

    That is not wrong (Novell is free to do whatever it wants – afterall it effectively owns Gnome now), but it certainly stops it from being a community as understood in the general sense of the word. It is much closer to Microsoft’s “.NET community” than (say) the Linux community.

    I didn’t want to get into this argument (and frankly would have been happier had it not started at all), but let’s not drag the BLUG into this.

    The reason why I am saying this is because this argument you guys are having will invariably be used to start some loud BLUG bashing again. NOSIP and Gnome Bangalore have nothing in common with the BLUG in any way – objectives, conditions and directions are/were completely different.

  15. say_yes04
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    I agree on every bit you said… And there precisely lies the point. Its not just upto Novell to do something with GnomeBangalore. Its up to the GnomeBangalore community ( its a different story on why that community is not proactive ). All people who are members/ well wishers/ users/ developers of Gnome community or gnome itself can take the GnomeCommunity forward. And that is when the image of NOSIP= GnomeBangalore will go away. This image is not because of anything Novell did its because of the bane that seems to sorround a lot of things i see .. We all like to talk but nobody wants to do the dirty work. There are a few exceptions but i am talking ratio’s

  16. say_yes04
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    Sounds, cool. Why dont you get yourself a blog on GnomeBangalore.org (blog somewhere else and i will link it up) and echo these sentiments. The point being Arun, If you feel passionate about this and you sound like you do, You have every chance to drive this and then you will see the image of the community that i/ you/ many of us want to build. Novell is just a facilitator they are not “the community” but when the community is mute it just looks like the facilitator is in charge. I am serious of doing whatever i can as a member of GnomeBangalore ( chapter and !novell) to push ideas i think would be fun.

    And on the suggestions..

    1) very do-able. 2) sure, i love beer too ;-)

    All these have nothing to do with Novell as you can see. If there are enough people who want to take this forward we could talk to the concerned people about delegating more and more of admistrators responsibility outside novell into the Community guys. Sounds good ?

  17. say_yes04
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    Have you made an honest attempt to take the initiative ? Please dont confuse what Novell can do with what GnomeBangalore can do. You cannot take decisions on NOSIP but you sure can take decisions for GnomeBangalore. Are u a member ? Why dont u give it a try ?

  18. fox2mike
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    Have you made an honest attempt to take the initiative ?

    Frankly, No. I guess I was sitting on my ass waiting for things to happen ;)

    You cannot take decisions on NOSIP but you sure can take decisions for GnomeBangalore. Are u a member ? Why dont u give it a try ?

    I am, of the forums or was. I saw little or no activity at all, which is what made me turn away.

    The reason why I said what I did in my previous comment is this : (from Arun’s link) on the “community” site.

    GNOME BANGALORE Community meet – 16th April, 2005

    OPEN TO: Those currently in NOSIP and those interested to join or know more about the program.

    NOSIP can do stuff on Gnome or anything for that matter but Gnome is not NOSIP dude :) That statement implies nothing more than that. In fact, you can’t have a “community”, especially an opensource one by restricting membership or attendance. If I called a LUG meet and said only KDE members are allowed in, what sense does it make? In that case, I should call it a KDE meet.

  19. achitnis
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    To put it brutally – there is no such thing as a corporate-driven community. Communities are driven by individuals that make up the community.

    I disagree about Novell not being responsible for the GB=NOSIP perception. Just have a look at the GB website – it is NOSIP all over the place! That is like a huge, blinking red STOP sign to anyone who feels that this could represent agendas and conflicts of interest.

    If you want a community, send the branding guys on a trip to Timbuktoo. Corporate branding guys can’t build communities – because they have no clue how to do so.

    Gnome has never been about corporate branding. Gnome sponsorship comes from a number of companies. See the bottom of http://foundation.gnome.org/ – why are all those names missing from the Gnome Bangalore site? Is it because GB != Gnome? Or that GB = Novell branded Gnome?

    Communities build themselves. And kill themselves. Participation builds communities. Exclusivity and branding efforts kill participation because it alienates people.

    And BTW – no one is accusing you of anything here, so calm down. But please – your viewpoint seems to be dripping with Kool Aid. I suggest you have a look at things through the eyes of outsiders like us.

    We may not be big, huge corporations.

    But we understand communities.

  20. prikansaritual
    Posted July 19, 2005 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    I dont remember clearly, but I did try to check out the website immediately after LINDEC. The site wouldn’t open. I guess, I just shot off a couple of mails and forgot all about it.

  21. louiswu
    Posted July 20, 2005 at 2:38 am | Permalink

    So we agree, then. Good. I’m in the middle of at least 2 other community-related things, so it’ll be a while before you’ll see real activity.

    But the mailing-list doesn’t require activity. A general Gnome-Bangalore discussion list would be a good starting point. Where can one request such a list?

    And as for (2) above … the next one’s on me. :)

  22. louiswu
    Posted July 20, 2005 at 2:39 am | Permalink

    I think you’ll find that it’s far ahead of where we last saw it. http://gnomebangalore.org/ldtp/index.php/About

  23. prikansaritual
    Posted July 20, 2005 at 5:46 am | Permalink

    LDTP will be extremely useful for things like qtopia. Must do more R&D on this, probably check out the mailing list as well.

  24. jessyleen
    Posted July 27, 2005 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    I chose to disagree.

    Community Commu”nity, n.;A body of people having common rights, privileges, or interests (1913 Webster)

    We are a community of students and mentors and contributors all with a focus. Nothing wrong with that. The NOSIP program is what aids the tutoring aspect of the community. A large number of students have gone through the program. IF its exclusively Novell sponsored right now.. again – nothing wrong with that. Its a smart dream that started at Novell and is being nurtured by them. This is a community of developers helping and grooming more developers. Its young and growing. The LDTP project right now has inputs from Wipro and Sun. Open Office is not an Novell-exclusive project. Neither is Gnome.

    Students who have passed through the program have joined various companies- Yahoo, RedHat, Wipro, .. least numbers in Novell itself.

    Don’t unnecessarily bash something in existence that works .. there’s room for everyone.

  25. achitnis
    Posted July 27, 2005 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    > Community Commu”nity, n.;A body of people having common rights, privileges, or interests (1913 Webster)

    Common rights, privileges…

    I am interested in Gnome, but not interested in being part of NOSIP. Ergo – I cannot be part of GB.

    Which means no rights.

    And that ends the discussion.

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